and then there was light… or however it would happen if the Bible met My Fair Lady, in Azeroth.

OK, OK, so I am not the only one who has been asking about this for a long time.  However, since I am a total egomaniac, I am going to take all the credit anyway.  Yay me!

I am sure that you have all now heard that in Cataclysm, you will be forced to choose between 10 and 25 man raiding.  The long held perception of dumb-dumb 10 man raids will hopefully be done away with.  People won’t feel forced to run the same content twice a week to remain competitive.  10 mans should be more challenging because there will no longer be any over gearing.

I know many people who are afraid that this will be the end of 25man raiding.  The same old chestnut gets mentioned every time this is discussed.  “But why would you bother doing 25mans if 10mans gave the same loot?” 

Why?  Because you bloody well like 25mans, that’s why!

Believe it or not, some people prefer 25man raiding.  I used to play with someone who actually missed 40man raids.  Some people like that large size, that epic scale, the camaraderie you get with the people of your class and role that just doesn’t happen in 10mans (Arcis Warlock Chat, I miss you so much <3).  The level of inner competition and drive was amazing in 25mans, solely because you had so many more people who could potentially be kicking your arse at your job.

Others like 10mans.  The intimate feel, the huge sense of responsibility on your shoulders knowing that, if you mess up, that’s ten percent of your raid gone.  Raiding in a group that is small enough that everyone can actually have a chat on Vent (or even get a word in edgewise), and everyone can carry some of the responsibility of running the raid.

For most of Wrath, 10 man exclusive guilds have been punished for being just that.  The player base refuses to see them as anything other than casual, regardless of how seriously they play the game.  More attention is given to 25man downings than 10 (partly because the top guilds raid both levels of content, and so over gear the ten man equivalent).  The emphasis on bloody gearscore has also meant that 10man only guilds and players are, again, largely seen as casual or scrubbish.  This annoys the hell out of me.

Not one type of raiding is better, or more important, than the other.  But by allowing people to do both, 10 man is always going to be pushed to the bottom of the pile, where 25man raiders run the 10 ‘just for badges’, making 10man raiders appear lazy or unmotivated.

I’m not sure how popular this change is going to be.  I remember once suggesting this on a TNB Round Table, and I think most of the people there at the time vehemently disagreed with me.  However, I think it will most definitely be for the better.

Now let’s just pray for some challenging raid content.  Heck, this change may see me go back to serious raiding!

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11 Responses to “In Which Blizzard Looked at Sar, and said “My God, She’s Got It!””
  1. [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Saresa. Saresa said: New blog post: In Which Blizzard Looked at Sar, and said “My God, She’s Got It!” [...]

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  2. I think what people fear most is not the death of 25 man guilds as a whole, but the death of THEIR 25 man guild. To be fair, I just hope the amount of drops will go hand in hand with the number of raiders, but even if we don’t see five item drops per 25 man boss, i’d probably be cool about it. The way i see it is:

    10 man: Short term – 5 bosses, 10 pieces of loot, one per player
    25 man: Long term – 5 bosses 3 pieces of loot, 0,6 items per player, but more emblems to get tier pieces and emblem gear faster.

    Heck, I suspect there might even be a talent in the new guild talent system that allow for, say, one more drop in 10 man and 3 more in 25 man, or something crazy like that.

    As long as there is a benefit in getting more people together, then I see no problem with all of this :)
    .-= Qieth´s last blog ..Blizzard concept art =-.

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  3. Very good post and I think the feels are echoed throughout the community. It very hard to get a 25 man these days so I think they have already died out and this is Blizzard just recognizing what the community is doing. WD

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  4. Well i think the exclusive lockouts is awesome and the many small raid is good but i just cant see how more of the same loot is going to compensate for the extra work that getting together and leading a 25 man is. Blizz is saying that the 10 man and the 25 man is going to be as hard but 25 man is inheritly harder with the ligistic difficultys so are they acctually making it so the 10 man is going to be the harder bosses with more abbilitys or how are they doing this?
    And yes a big part of me not liking this change is that i afraid of not being able to raid with the ppl i like best in game, other locks. Being the same class brings all kind of different things into the converation who does what(who specs demo, who have the improved HS) and gearing and strat discussion that you just dont get between different classes, what will i actually have to talk to the mages and with other things the emotes? I always thought they only understood sign language:P

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  5. My biggest complaint is that I don’t belong to a dedicated raiding guild. For the weekly raid quest, I often rely on my friends who run the 25-man version before their typical raid, but do the 10-man with me.
    .-= Elkagorasa´s last blog ..Know thy Enemy, Know Yourself =-.

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  6. [...] Saresa at Destructive Reach takes credit for them. [...]

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  7. I 100% agree with your article!

    As a person who prefers 10 man raiding, I’m tired of being looked down to because of my gear or the preconception that “10 mans are just to farm badges or for noobs/casuals”. And about that… have you noticed that “casual” is the new “noob”? (At least for supposedly “hardcore/serious” players).

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  8. [...] Saresa at Destructive Reach takes credit for them. [...]

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  9. he he – fun post; and i totally give you credit unless Blizz can prove earlier post!

    I think we cannot ignore that quiet message that the amount of loot that will drop in 25m versions will make 25m raids a lot more loot efficient than running the raids in 10m versions. Given the choice, almost every guild that can staff a 25m will run a 25m if it is more gearing-efficient.


    .-= Ionhelm´s last blog ..Robin/ giving back to the blogosphere =-.

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  10. [...] Saresa at Destructive Reach takes credit for them. [...]

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  11. I think a lot of people are scared of change. I’ve seen so much crying on the forums about Blizzard changing small things and I’m sure this will be met with lots of QQ-ing too. In my opinion; if it doesn’t work, I’m sure Blizzard will find a quick solution. I doubt they would want to risk people leaving their game. We’ll see what the future brings and how it works out. 10 or 25 man doesn’t matter to me, as long as I can raid with my guildies and don’t make anyone feel left out, I don’t see a problem.
    .-= Sil´s last blog ..Oronil’s past (part 2) =-.

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