Comments on: Because Angry Rants Make Me Feel All Warm and Fuzzy Inside http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/10/because-angry-rants-make-me-feel-all-warm-and-fuzzy-inside/ Wed, 21 Dec 2011 14:42:41 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Counterpoint: Wrath Saved WoW Raiding | World of Matticus http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/10/because-angry-rants-make-me-feel-all-warm-and-fuzzy-inside/comment-page-1/#comment-1467 Counterpoint: Wrath Saved WoW Raiding | World of Matticus Fri, 23 Oct 2009 16:58:03 +0000 http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/10/because-angry-rants-make-me-feel-all-warm-and-fuzzy-inside/#comment-1467 [...] all of the talk going around that Wrath of the Lich King made things significantly easier and therefore "killed the [...] [...] all of the talk going around that Wrath of the Lich King made things significantly easier and therefore "killed the [...]

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]]> By: drug http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/10/because-angry-rants-make-me-feel-all-warm-and-fuzzy-inside/comment-page-1/#comment-1466 drug Thu, 22 Oct 2009 23:50:05 +0000 http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/10/because-angry-rants-make-me-feel-all-warm-and-fuzzy-inside/#comment-1466 Sadly, I couldn't agree more. I actually wrote a very similar post on my site some weeks ago. First of all, Hard Modes have absolutely killed the fun of progression raiding. It is just no fun to kill a boss with ease and then kill him again with my hands tied behind my back. This absolutely kills the enthusiastic feeling when seeing a new boss for the first time and then killing him. Y-S was a nice encounter, but all in all, way to easy in normal mode. Killing bosses for the first time in TBC was so much more emotional and epic. Secondly, the choice of providing hard modes has led to a very dumb balancing. Normal mode bosses are extremely easy. They are designed for under geared people. They are designed for not so skilled players. Normal mode bosses will eventually die, even if I just let my cat walk over the keyboard. Hard modes on the other hand are designed for really hardcore guilds. They require skilled players. They require a lot of gear. So, who was fun? Unskilled players and absolute high-end raiders who check wowprogress every 5 minutes. Many good, somewhat casual guilds are bored, somewhere between facerolling the normal mode content and struggling with hard modes. Last but not least. The eff-ing huge mass of loot raining from every corner and emblem of the game onto my character has absolutely erased every pride and interested I had in gearing up my toon. Everyone looks exactly the same. Your gear doesn't represent at all your achievements in game. No more respectful spotting of the very first few T6 shoulders in town. Did you raid 25 man Ulduar and some Hard modes? All that gear is absolutely meaningless after a very short period of time and must be replaced with TotC gear to succeed in TotC Heroic. Heck, most 10 man raiders are at this point so much better geared than I am, just because 10 man TotC is so easy and holds so much loot, and 25 mans are relatively slow with gearing up people. To cut a long story short: Minesweeper hasn't looked as attractive next to WoW in years. .-= drug´s last blog ..<a href="http://www.shieldsup.ch/2009/10/21/future-of-shields-up/" rel="nofollow">Future of Shields Up!</a> =-. Sadly, I couldn’t agree more. I actually wrote a very similar post on my site some weeks ago.

First of all, Hard Modes have absolutely killed the fun of progression raiding. It is just no fun to kill a boss with ease and then kill him again with my hands tied behind my back. This absolutely kills the enthusiastic feeling when seeing a new boss for the first time and then killing him. Y-S was a nice encounter, but all in all, way to easy in normal mode. Killing bosses for the first time in TBC was so much more emotional and epic.

Secondly, the choice of providing hard modes has led to a very dumb balancing. Normal mode bosses are extremely easy. They are designed for under geared people. They are designed for not so skilled players. Normal mode bosses will eventually die, even if I just let my cat walk over the keyboard. Hard modes on the other hand are designed for really hardcore guilds. They require skilled players. They require a lot of gear. So, who was fun? Unskilled players and absolute high-end raiders who check wowprogress every 5 minutes. Many good, somewhat casual guilds are bored, somewhere between facerolling the normal mode content and struggling with hard modes.

Last but not least. The eff-ing huge mass of loot raining from every corner and emblem of the game onto my character has absolutely erased every pride and interested I had in gearing up my toon. Everyone looks exactly the same. Your gear doesn’t represent at all your achievements in game. No more respectful spotting of the very first few T6 shoulders in town. Did you raid 25 man Ulduar and some Hard modes? All that gear is absolutely meaningless after a very short period of time and must be replaced with TotC gear to succeed in TotC Heroic. Heck, most 10 man raiders are at this point so much better geared than I am, just because 10 man TotC is so easy and holds so much loot, and 25 mans are relatively slow with gearing up people.

To cut a long story short: Minesweeper hasn’t looked as attractive next to WoW in years.
.-= drug´s last blog ..Future of Shields Up! =-.

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]]> By: WoW is too easy. « Altadin http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/10/because-angry-rants-make-me-feel-all-warm-and-fuzzy-inside/comment-page-1/#comment-1465 WoW is too easy. « Altadin Thu, 22 Oct 2009 13:39:05 +0000 http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/10/because-angry-rants-make-me-feel-all-warm-and-fuzzy-inside/#comment-1465 [...] explains it beautifully: I want my difficult raids to be new, exciting and fresh.  Killing a boss with a couple more adds, [...] [...] explains it beautifully: I want my difficult raids to be new, exciting and fresh.  Killing a boss with a couple more adds, [...]

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]]> By: Sean http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/10/because-angry-rants-make-me-feel-all-warm-and-fuzzy-inside/comment-page-1/#comment-1463 Sean Thu, 22 Oct 2009 05:26:25 +0000 http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/10/because-angry-rants-make-me-feel-all-warm-and-fuzzy-inside/#comment-1463 “And why people are so eager to jump down the throats of those of us who don’t like the new system – we aren’t giving you a hard time about your preferences, let us have ours!” I don't begrudge you your preference at all. I can understand where it's coming from; you have a history with the game and raiding that I don't share. However, the problem you're pointing to is not essentially one of game mechanics but of social ones. You want a guild that will tackle the harder difficulties exclusively and on your schedule. That so few people are interested in such a venture might point to where there true motivations lie rather than any failing on Blizzard's part. You still have access to your Sunwell of old: it's called toggled hard-mode in Icecrown. The difference now is that the rest of the casual raiding population - that is the vast majority of the raiding population - will experience that content too. If you can't find like-minded people to tackle the more difficult encounters from the start, then your real objection lies with the fact that the vast majority of even the hardcore raiders prefer the easiest possible route to their end goals rather than relishing a challenge, and Blizzard provided them an easier route in Wrath. .-= Sean´s last blog ..<a href="http://grindingforpleasure.blogspot.com/2008/11/bring-out-your-dead.html" rel="nofollow">Bring Out Your Dead!</a> =-. “And why people are so eager to jump down the throats of those of us who don’t like the new system – we aren’t giving you a hard time about your preferences, let us have ours!”

I don’t begrudge you your preference at all. I can understand where it’s coming from; you have a history with the game and raiding that I don’t share. However, the problem you’re pointing to is not essentially one of game mechanics but of social ones. You want a guild that will tackle the harder difficulties exclusively and on your schedule. That so few people are interested in such a venture might point to where there true motivations lie rather than any failing on Blizzard’s part. You still have access to your Sunwell of old: it’s called toggled hard-mode in Icecrown. The difference now is that the rest of the casual raiding population – that is the vast majority of the raiding population – will experience that content too. If you can’t find like-minded people to tackle the more difficult encounters from the start, then your real objection lies with the fact that the vast majority of even the hardcore raiders prefer the easiest possible route to their end goals rather than relishing a challenge, and Blizzard provided them an easier route in Wrath.
.-= Sean´s last blog ..Bring Out Your Dead! =-.

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]]> By: Saresa http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/10/because-angry-rants-make-me-feel-all-warm-and-fuzzy-inside/comment-page-1/#comment-1461 Saresa Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:24:56 +0000 http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/10/because-angry-rants-make-me-feel-all-warm-and-fuzzy-inside/#comment-1461 Oh... that's what I forgot! I seriously think the level of skill required in BC for raiding was exaggerated somewhat. It wasn't a huge amount of skill - just a huge amount of patience, and not giving up after wiping all night on a boss. THAT is the sort of thing that regular/hard mode has killed, unfortunately. Oh… that’s what I forgot! I seriously think the level of skill required in BC for raiding was exaggerated somewhat. It wasn’t a huge amount of skill – just a huge amount of patience, and not giving up after wiping all night on a boss. THAT is the sort of thing that regular/hard mode has killed, unfortunately.

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]]> By: Saresa http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/10/because-angry-rants-make-me-feel-all-warm-and-fuzzy-inside/comment-page-1/#comment-1460 Saresa Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:21:51 +0000 http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/10/because-angry-rants-make-me-feel-all-warm-and-fuzzy-inside/#comment-1460 @Leah tell you what - you find my a good 8 hour a week guild that is dedicated to hardmodes, and I'll look into it... because such a thing doesn't exist on my server. As I said, guilds who do hardmodes take the game seriously and expect you to be wearing the best gear, and to dot hat, you really need to farm normal modes for badges and trophies. I has actually having a discussion last night with someone, and unfortunately, I do not enjoy ToC at all. I find the fights to be very dull, and as a raid, well... it's kinda blah. Ulduar I've done to death and would quite happily never go there again. As I said, I think the best thing that sums it up is the night my 10man group decided to just go in and do some Ulduar hardmodes. Sure, it was harder, but I wouldn't say it was especially exciting downing those bosses (again). Excuse the language, but at the moment hardmodes just feel like 'Same shit, different colour'. The exhilaration of raiding (OMG first boss kill!) is gone for me, and Wrath won't be bringing it back unless there's some content that's at a BT/Hyjal level of difficulty. @Leah tell you what – you find my a good 8 hour a week guild that is dedicated to hardmodes, and I’ll look into it… because such a thing doesn’t exist on my server. As I said, guilds who do hardmodes take the game seriously and expect you to be wearing the best gear, and to dot hat, you really need to farm normal modes for badges and trophies.

I has actually having a discussion last night with someone, and unfortunately, I do not enjoy ToC at all. I find the fights to be very dull, and as a raid, well… it’s kinda blah. Ulduar I’ve done to death and would quite happily never go there again.

As I said, I think the best thing that sums it up is the night my 10man group decided to just go in and do some Ulduar hardmodes. Sure, it was harder, but I wouldn’t say it was especially exciting downing those bosses (again). Excuse the language, but at the moment hardmodes just feel like ‘Same shit, different colour’. The exhilaration of raiding (OMG first boss kill!) is gone for me, and Wrath won’t be bringing it back unless there’s some content that’s at a BT/Hyjal level of difficulty.

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]]> By: Will http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/10/because-angry-rants-make-me-feel-all-warm-and-fuzzy-inside/comment-page-1/#comment-1457 Will Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:10:13 +0000 http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/10/because-angry-rants-make-me-feel-all-warm-and-fuzzy-inside/#comment-1457 I worked at a game company in a previous life and the most expensive part of our game to develop was the content. It was extremely expensive, actually. I'm guessing the same is true for World of Warcraft. I think Blizzard decided that they just couldn't afford to spend so much money for content that so few people would see. So they opened up raiding to as many people as possible. With any change, there are bound to be people that don't like it, but on the whole, I think Blizzard did the right thing. I worked at a game company in a previous life and the most expensive part of our game to develop was the content. It was extremely expensive, actually. I’m guessing the same is true for World of Warcraft. I think Blizzard decided that they just couldn’t afford to spend so much money for content that so few people would see. So they opened up raiding to as many people as possible. With any change, there are bound to be people that don’t like it, but on the whole, I think Blizzard did the right thing.

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]]> By: Larísa http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/10/because-angry-rants-make-me-feel-all-warm-and-fuzzy-inside/comment-page-1/#comment-1456 Larísa Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:25:24 +0000 http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/10/because-angry-rants-make-me-feel-all-warm-and-fuzzy-inside/#comment-1456 Hm... I thought I did a comment but it seems as if someone ate it. I just wanted to say that it should be possible to do more challenging modes than normal even though you're just raiding twice a week. We have a light raiding schedule in our guild with 3 raids and 2/3 raids demands for attendance. And we're doing just fine. The key is discipline. And of course, as Leah says, extended lockouts. Considering how many people that are complaining about the easiness of the game it shouldn't bee completely impossible to find a bunch of likeminded people, who like you rather raid for challenge than for gear. .-= Larísa´s last blog ..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ThePinkPigtailInn/~3/b_JvDdZwWuQ/why-i-dont-want-to-hear-another-wow-is.html" rel="nofollow">Why I don't want to hear another "WoW is too easy" statement</a> =-. Hm… I thought I did a comment but it seems as if someone ate it. I just wanted to say that it should be possible to do more challenging modes than normal even though you’re just raiding twice a week. We have a light raiding schedule in our guild with 3 raids and 2/3 raids demands for attendance. And we’re doing just fine. The key is discipline. And of course, as Leah says, extended lockouts.
Considering how many people that are complaining about the easiness of the game it shouldn’t bee completely impossible to find a bunch of likeminded people, who like you rather raid for challenge than for gear.
.-= Larísa´s last blog ..Why I don’t want to hear another "WoW is too easy" statement =-.

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]]> By: Syrana http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/10/because-angry-rants-make-me-feel-all-warm-and-fuzzy-inside/comment-page-1/#comment-1455 Syrana Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:14:05 +0000 http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/10/because-angry-rants-make-me-feel-all-warm-and-fuzzy-inside/#comment-1455 <i>"And why people are so eager to jump down the throats of those of us who don’t like the new system – we aren’t giving you a hard time about your preferences, let us have ours!"</i> While you may not give others a hard time for liking the new system, there still are a lot of people that dislike-hate-the new system who blame casuals and anyone that tries to discuss pros of the new system. Unfortunately, that blaming isn't productive nor is it appropriately aimed. You are able to present your differing opinion in a respectful manner, not everyone can do that. And even if I don't agree with you on whatever position that may be - I at least know where you are coming from. .-= Syrana´s last blog ..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/SideSyr/~3/gX3GZaOjRjM/" rel="nofollow">Reporting For Duty (RP)</a> =-. “And why people are so eager to jump down the throats of those of us who don’t like the new system – we aren’t giving you a hard time about your preferences, let us have ours!”

While you may not give others a hard time for liking the new system, there still are a lot of people that dislike-hate-the new system who blame casuals and anyone that tries to discuss pros of the new system.

Unfortunately, that blaming isn’t productive nor is it appropriately aimed.

You are able to present your differing opinion in a respectful manner, not everyone can do that. And even if I don’t agree with you on whatever position that may be – I at least know where you are coming from.
.-= Syrana´s last blog ..Reporting For Duty (RP) =-.

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]]> By: Leah http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/10/because-angry-rants-make-me-feel-all-warm-and-fuzzy-inside/comment-page-1/#comment-1454 Leah Tue, 20 Oct 2009 12:41:10 +0000 http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/10/because-angry-rants-make-me-feel-all-warm-and-fuzzy-inside/#comment-1454 I'm not sure I agree with "Blizzard killed 8 hours a week" raiding. on the contrary, i think it made it easier then ever to raid part time. Fact. once you've cleared ToC on Normal, you do not need to ever come back there on normal. you can start straight with heroic. Fact. you do not NEED to farm badges. you do not NEED to farm gear. Skill is better then gear, right? right? Adequate gear is easier then ever to get. unless you are going for server firsts? you don't need cutting edge gear. and 8hour a week raider wouldn't be going for server firsts anyway. Raid instances are short, which means you don't have a situation where you cannot clear a raid becasue its just too big. and then there are extended lockouts. it all comes down to..are you raiding for gear or are you raiding for content? ToC is kinda lackluster lorewise, but I personally find the fights pretty fun, especially on heroic mode. Ulduar is pretty great and you might be sick of FL, but I still like it. Icecrown citadel is shaping up to be very interesting. just becasue most guilds farm normal modes does it mean you have to? I’m not sure I agree with “Blizzard killed 8 hours a week” raiding. on the contrary, i think it made it easier then ever to raid part time.

Fact. once you’ve cleared ToC on Normal, you do not need to ever come back there on normal. you can start straight with heroic.

Fact. you do not NEED to farm badges. you do not NEED to farm gear. Skill is better then gear, right? right? Adequate gear is easier then ever to get. unless you are going for server firsts? you don’t need cutting edge gear. and 8hour a week raider wouldn’t be going for server firsts anyway.

Raid instances are short, which means you don’t have a situation where you cannot clear a raid becasue its just too big. and then there are extended lockouts.

it all comes down to..are you raiding for gear or are you raiding for content? ToC is kinda lackluster lorewise, but I personally find the fights pretty fun, especially on heroic mode. Ulduar is pretty great and you might be sick of FL, but I still like it. Icecrown citadel is shaping up to be very interesting.

just becasue most guilds farm normal modes does it mean you have to?

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