Comments on: Where in MMORPG does it say ‘Easy’? http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/where-in-mmorpg-does-it-say-easy/ Wed, 21 Dec 2011 14:42:41 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: The Elitists » Blog Archive » The Elitists Podcast, Episode 17: the 3.2 Cometh http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/where-in-mmorpg-does-it-say-easy/comment-page-1/#comment-1283 The Elitists » Blog Archive » The Elitists Podcast, Episode 17: the 3.2 Cometh Mon, 06 Jul 2009 18:06:23 +0000 http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/where-in-mmorpg-does-it-say-easy/#comment-1283 [...] Using WoW for learning in Schools: WoWInsider Badge Changes: Blog Plz Greedy Goblin 2 The Elitists Destructive Reach 2 Levelling server?: WoWInsider Create your own title: WoWInsider Flavor text in PTR hints of new [...] [...] Using WoW for learning in Schools: WoWInsider Badge Changes: Blog Plz Greedy Goblin 2 The Elitists Destructive Reach 2 Levelling server?: WoWInsider Create your own title: WoWInsider Flavor text in PTR hints of new [...]

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]]> By: Temitope http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/where-in-mmorpg-does-it-say-easy/comment-page-1/#comment-1282 Temitope Sun, 05 Jul 2009 14:42:04 +0000 http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/where-in-mmorpg-does-it-say-easy/#comment-1282 I don't see how the badge changes are forcing people to farm heroics. They're not going to take the Tier 8 drops *away* from Ulduar, so if you want to gear that way you can. Although to answer my own question, I suppose if the ATC is balanced on the assumption that you have access to Tier 8.5 gear, then you're put in a situation where you have to do Ulduar Hard modes (which I think most people agree are in fact hard - sometimes even mathematically impossible) or farm Heroics then that would indeed suck. .-= Temitope´s last blog ..<a href="http://ideathtard.blogspot.com/2009/07/weekend-riddles.html" rel="nofollow">Weekend Riddles</a> =-. I don’t see how the badge changes are forcing people to farm heroics. They’re not going to take the Tier 8 drops *away* from Ulduar, so if you want to gear that way you can.

Although to answer my own question, I suppose if the ATC is balanced on the assumption that you have access to Tier 8.5 gear, then you’re put in a situation where you have to do Ulduar Hard modes (which I think most people agree are in fact hard – sometimes even mathematically impossible) or farm Heroics then that would indeed suck.
.-= Temitope´s last blog ..Weekend Riddles =-.

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]]> By: Saresa http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/where-in-mmorpg-does-it-say-easy/comment-page-1/#comment-1281 Saresa Sat, 04 Jul 2009 03:45:06 +0000 http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/where-in-mmorpg-does-it-say-easy/#comment-1281 @ Temitope the problem is, the game isn't HARD already. If it was *optional* it would be fine, but it won't be... it'll force everyone to grind the same stuff, even if they hate grinding, to remain competitive. For instance, I don't WANT to grind heroics on my Druid (who is fairly undergeared all in all) to get the latest greatest badge gear to remain competitive. I'm having fun doing it the old fashioned way, through masses of bad pug raids that leave me gritting my teeth. Well... I have fun with the raiding aspect anyway ;-) The game can not get any easier. Really. If people STILL fail, they are going to fail with their good gear just as bad as they do with their bad gear. So, it is all just silly imo. @ Temitope the problem is, the game isn’t HARD already. If it was *optional* it would be fine, but it won’t be… it’ll force everyone to grind the same stuff, even if they hate grinding, to remain competitive. For instance, I don’t WANT to grind heroics on my Druid (who is fairly undergeared all in all) to get the latest greatest badge gear to remain competitive. I’m having fun doing it the old fashioned way, through masses of bad pug raids that leave me gritting my teeth. Well… I have fun with the raiding aspect anyway ;-)

The game can not get any easier. Really. If people STILL fail, they are going to fail with their good gear just as bad as they do with their bad gear. So, it is all just silly imo.

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]]> By: Temitope http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/where-in-mmorpg-does-it-say-easy/comment-page-1/#comment-1279 Temitope Fri, 03 Jul 2009 22:58:09 +0000 http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/where-in-mmorpg-does-it-say-easy/#comment-1279 I find it interesting that you bring up single player games. Every single single player game I have ever played has had variable difficulty settings. If you were bad at Duke Nukem you could flip a switch and put the game on easy mode. MMOs can't do that. This is exactly why the Badge changes are a good idea. It gives people an *optional* easy mode, just like you'd get in a single player game. Buying your Tier 8.5 with badges is the equivalent of completing a video game on Beginner. It's a totally legitimate way to play, and it in no way devalues the efforts of people who play on Nightmare. .-= Temitope´s last blog ..<a href="http://ideathtard.blogspot.com/2009/07/more-thoughts-on-content-four-percent.html" rel="nofollow">More Thoughts on Content, the Four Percent</a> =-. I find it interesting that you bring up single player games.

Every single single player game I have ever played has had variable difficulty settings. If you were bad at Duke Nukem you could flip a switch and put the game on easy mode. MMOs can’t do that.

This is exactly why the Badge changes are a good idea. It gives people an *optional* easy mode, just like you’d get in a single player game. Buying your Tier 8.5 with badges is the equivalent of completing a video game on Beginner. It’s a totally legitimate way to play, and it in no way devalues the efforts of people who play on Nightmare.
.-= Temitope´s last blog ..More Thoughts on Content, the Four Percent =-.

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]]> By: Gnomeaggedon http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/where-in-mmorpg-does-it-say-easy/comment-page-1/#comment-1277 Gnomeaggedon Fri, 03 Jul 2009 05:10:05 +0000 http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/where-in-mmorpg-does-it-say-easy/#comment-1277 Grats on 300! .-= Gnomeaggedon´s last blog ..<a href="http://gnomeaggedon.net/2009/07/03/ask-da-nome-a-kwestion-or-20-bhlogdey-kwestions-part-2/" rel="nofollow">Ask da Nome a Kwestion or 20 Bhlogdey Kwestions (Part 2)</a> =-. Grats on 300!
.-= Gnomeaggedon´s last blog ..Ask da Nome a Kwestion or 20 Bhlogdey Kwestions (Part 2) =-.

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]]> By: Elf http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/where-in-mmorpg-does-it-say-easy/comment-page-1/#comment-1271 Elf Sun, 28 Jun 2009 10:01:37 +0000 http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/where-in-mmorpg-does-it-say-easy/#comment-1271 <i> Actually casting a sheep spell [...] is dead simple</i> Well, yes and no. A simple polymorph crowd-control strategy is easy. Requiring multiple crowd-control sources in a single pull, because otherwise the number of mobs becomes unmanageable, is where the group needs to be able to work together and be knowledgeable about multiple classes. Everyone needs to know that sap can only be applied out of combat, banish and polymorph start combat and make sap impossible. Damage breaks polymorph and sap, but not banish, so the mobs need to be moved away from sap and polymorphed targets and AoE needs to be carefully applied. Sap cannot be refreshed, but polymorph and banish can, so the pull and kill order of the mobs needs to be worked out and stuck to. On top of that, nothing breaks banish so refreshing it at the wrong time can lead to a long delay where everyone is waiting for a mob to kill. And even with all of that to consider I have forgotten about hunters and their traps. Making a fight require crowd control creates many more variables to consider that needs more thought and coordination than any fight I have seen in the WLK 5-man instances. My underpowered guild has run through them all with no problems, but I bet we would have been in trouble in Mechanar. .-= Elf´s last blog ..<a href="http://www.slain-by-elf.org/2009/06/23/stealing-the-hordes-flames/" rel="nofollow">Stealing the Horde’s Flames</a> =-. Actually casting a sheep spell [...] is dead simple

Well, yes and no.

A simple polymorph crowd-control strategy is easy. Requiring multiple crowd-control sources in a single pull, because otherwise the number of mobs becomes unmanageable, is where the group needs to be able to work together and be knowledgeable about multiple classes.

Everyone needs to know that sap can only be applied out of combat, banish and polymorph start combat and make sap impossible. Damage breaks polymorph and sap, but not banish, so the mobs need to be moved away from sap and polymorphed targets and AoE needs to be carefully applied. Sap cannot be refreshed, but polymorph and banish can, so the pull and kill order of the mobs needs to be worked out and stuck to. On top of that, nothing breaks banish so refreshing it at the wrong time can lead to a long delay where everyone is waiting for a mob to kill.

And even with all of that to consider I have forgotten about hunters and their traps. Making a fight require crowd control creates many more variables to consider that needs more thought and coordination than any fight I have seen in the WLK 5-man instances. My underpowered guild has run through them all with no problems, but I bet we would have been in trouble in Mechanar.
.-= Elf´s last blog ..Stealing the Horde’s Flames =-.

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]]> By: Spinks http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/where-in-mmorpg-does-it-say-easy/comment-page-1/#comment-1270 Spinks Sun, 28 Jun 2009 05:29:22 +0000 http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/where-in-mmorpg-does-it-say-easy/#comment-1270 "OS is much easier than Mag’s was. Except for maybe 3 drakes, which is slightly harder, but then, that IS ‘hard mode’." I think that's pretty much exactly what they were aiming at. Easy/normal mode is easier than the TBC equivalent, hard mode is harder. But one thing about the OS - for Mag, the difficulty was mostly stacked onto a few people (ie. clickers). In OS, everyone needs to move out of the flames, everyone needs more situational awareness - at least that's what I see. As far as the CC goes, it's more about making groups of trash mobs harder than anything else. Actually casting a sheep spell (and resheeping as necessary) is dead simple - although you wouldn't know it from the mess some mages used to make of it. “OS is much easier than Mag’s was. Except for maybe 3 drakes, which is slightly harder, but then, that IS ‘hard mode’.”

I think that’s pretty much exactly what they were aiming at. Easy/normal mode is easier than the TBC equivalent, hard mode is harder. But one thing about the OS – for Mag, the difficulty was mostly stacked onto a few people (ie. clickers). In OS, everyone needs to move out of the flames, everyone needs more situational awareness – at least that’s what I see.

As far as the CC goes, it’s more about making groups of trash mobs harder than anything else. Actually casting a sheep spell (and resheeping as necessary) is dead simple – although you wouldn’t know it from the mess some mages used to make of it.

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]]> By: The Elitists » Blog Archive » Emblems and Difficulty http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/where-in-mmorpg-does-it-say-easy/comment-page-1/#comment-1269 The Elitists » Blog Archive » Emblems and Difficulty Sat, 27 Jun 2009 20:15:18 +0000 http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/where-in-mmorpg-does-it-say-easy/#comment-1269 [...] I was reading a post made by Saresa recently on the topic of the emblem changes and as I have had a couple people pick up an interest in what I think about the whole change, I thought I’d make a direct response to Saresa’s post and give a bit of my insight. [...] [...] I was reading a post made by Saresa recently on the topic of the emblem changes and as I have had a couple people pick up an interest in what I think about the whole change, I thought I’d make a direct response to Saresa’s post and give a bit of my insight. [...]

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]]> By: Saresa http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/where-in-mmorpg-does-it-say-easy/comment-page-1/#comment-1266 Saresa Sat, 27 Jun 2009 02:20:07 +0000 http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/where-in-mmorpg-does-it-say-easy/#comment-1266 @Kadomi "I'll believe you that it's too easy when you have cleared all hardmodes". That is both a fair, and yet ridiculously unfair statement. Should a raid be judged solely on it's hardest encounter, or as a whole? I remember thinking TK was an 'easy' raid, even though it had a HELLISH end boss. Too bad half the bosses were simple though! Karazhan was harder than TK (IF you were in the appropriate gear levels for each). Hardmodes ARE hard, that's why they are called that! However, they are a topic for another post entirely (and to be honest, not one I am especially interested in), as to whether it is 'real' or 'artificial' difficulty. The raids to me still feel like we are wiping because of silly errors, not because the content is hard in itself. That statement might not make sense... but then, feelings seldom do! @Kadomi “I’ll believe you that it’s too easy when you have cleared all hardmodes”. That is both a fair, and yet ridiculously unfair statement. Should a raid be judged solely on it’s hardest encounter, or as a whole? I remember thinking TK was an ‘easy’ raid, even though it had a HELLISH end boss. Too bad half the bosses were simple though! Karazhan was harder than TK (IF you were in the appropriate gear levels for each).

Hardmodes ARE hard, that’s why they are called that! However, they are a topic for another post entirely (and to be honest, not one I am especially interested in), as to whether it is ‘real’ or ‘artificial’ difficulty. The raids to me still feel like we are wiping because of silly errors, not because the content is hard in itself. That statement might not make sense… but then, feelings seldom do!

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]]> By: Tristan http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/where-in-mmorpg-does-it-say-easy/comment-page-1/#comment-1265 Tristan Sat, 27 Jun 2009 01:23:19 +0000 http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/where-in-mmorpg-does-it-say-easy/#comment-1265 You're going to make me post about this now... and I was so excited about being lazy about this topic. CURSE YOU YOU EVIL AUSSIE! PS: my post is going to be part about emblems but mostly a direct response to yours. You’re going to make me post about this now… and I was so excited about being lazy about this topic. CURSE YOU YOU EVIL AUSSIE!

PS: my post is going to be part about emblems but mostly a direct response to yours.

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