Comments on: Badge Changes Can Bite My Butt http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/badge-changes-can-bite-my-butt/ Thu, 09 Sep 2010 03:43:08 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: WTT: 530 Emblems of Conquest for a Ulduar-geared restoration shaman, PST. « Fel Fire http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/badge-changes-can-bite-my-butt/comment-page-1/#comment-1261 WTT: 530 Emblems of Conquest for a Ulduar-geared restoration shaman, PST. « Fel Fire Fri, 26 Jun 2009 22:00:16 +0000 http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/badge-changes-can-bite-my-butt/#comment-1261 [...] than any other, my kneejerk reaction to the imminent Emblem of Conquest change resembled Saresa’s.  I liked the tiered Emblem system.  Not only did it reward raiders in proportion to the [...] [...] than any other, my kneejerk reaction to the imminent Emblem of Conquest change resembled Saresa’s.  I liked the tiered Emblem system.  Not only did it reward raiders in proportion to the [...]

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]]> By: dozenz http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/badge-changes-can-bite-my-butt/comment-page-1/#comment-1247 dozenz Mon, 22 Jun 2009 12:41:52 +0000 http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/badge-changes-can-bite-my-butt/#comment-1247 Oh I agree that if you want to get into regular Ulduar raids you should join at the very least a casual raiding guild. And I also agree that it will not be easy to gear up, but, that option should still be available. At the rate of new content being released, people not in a raiding guild fall quickly behind and eventually come to a point where they would not even be allowed to get into a group because their gear is low in content. The bagde gear becoming easier to access allows them to at least gear up certain slots so that they won't be dragging the raid down. Someone who only can only gear up on Heroism tokens and eventually BoE crafts, will not be going into the new 3.2 raid at all...and will most likely not be going into Uldar at all. Naxx he is geared appropriately to enter, but Naxx PUGs are fewer and fewer, and most who do it want only to farm it easy mode, meaning no "naxx appropriate" geared people since they don't want to possibly wiope, hit a gear check wall (Patchwerk, Thaddius) or take 3 hours for a run. Another benefit of 3.2 will be an increase in Naxx groups. And also the casuals who do not raid will also gear up slowly. Tokens become more ascesible but that doesn't mean that casuals will all of a sudden be doing non-stop heroics 24/7 since thats not what they do. It will take them time to do it. The ones who will be gearing up on token gear on patch week will be the raiders... Don't forget that the badge gear will also help people who return to the game, and don't want to hold their guild back by getting into progression (if the guild would evne allow it) and who also don't want to drag the guild back a few tiers. Oh I agree that if you want to get into regular Ulduar raids you should join at the very least a casual raiding guild. And I also agree that it will not be easy to gear up, but, that option should still be available. At the rate of new content being released, people not in a raiding guild fall quickly behind and eventually come to a point where they would not even be allowed to get into a group because their gear is low in content.

The bagde gear becoming easier to access allows them to at least gear up certain slots so that they won’t be dragging the raid down.

Someone who only can only gear up on Heroism tokens and eventually BoE crafts, will not be going into the new 3.2 raid at all…and will most likely not be going into Uldar at all. Naxx he is geared appropriately to enter, but Naxx PUGs are fewer and fewer, and most who do it want only to farm it easy mode, meaning no “naxx appropriate” geared people since they don’t want to possibly wiope, hit a gear check wall (Patchwerk, Thaddius) or take 3 hours for a run.

Another benefit of 3.2 will be an increase in Naxx groups.

And also the casuals who do not raid will also gear up slowly. Tokens become more ascesible but that doesn’t mean that casuals will all of a sudden be doing non-stop heroics 24/7 since thats not what they do. It will take them time to do it. The ones who will be gearing up on token gear on patch week will be the raiders…

Don’t forget that the badge gear will also help people who return to the game, and don’t want to hold their guild back by getting into progression (if the guild would evne allow it) and who also don’t want to drag the guild back a few tiers.

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]]> By: Saresa http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/badge-changes-can-bite-my-butt/comment-page-1/#comment-1246 Saresa Mon, 22 Jun 2009 07:42:45 +0000 http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/badge-changes-can-bite-my-butt/#comment-1246 Dozenz, my issue with people wanting to PuG raids every so often for raid gear is that it just doesn't succeed anyway. Sure, you can PuG Naxx and succeed, you can do the same with VoA and OS... but you shouldn't be able to with other content. Raids are supposed to be difficult enough that PuGs are not going to succeed. If PuGs can get geared up in a raid, it is too easy. If you want to PuG raids on a regular basis, join a guild which raids. If you want to raid once a blue moon, you just have to deal with the fact that it's going to be bloody difficult getting into a group. Regardless of gear, if I had the option between someone who raided frequently and the occasional pugger, I'd take the frequent raider any day of the week. I have yet to see a guild resort to taking a random pug to a raid. The risk of them not knowing the fights, not being able to stick around, and them being an asshat in general is just too great. If you do get into an Ulduar or equivalent raid by some chance, you are bloody dreaming if you think you will have a half decent chance at loot! Sound elitist? Probably. Remember I don't exactly come from a full on, hardcore raiding background. When I was in a casual guild, I was happy with having the gear I needed at the time. When I wanted to raid more content, I transferred to a semi-casual raiding guild. Sure, I have been 'pugged' into Ulduar... by my old guild, who hit me up when they need an extra. However, this isn't a frequent thing I have seen happen on any server. The whole argument is just moot. Dozenz, my issue with people wanting to PuG raids every so often for raid gear is that it just doesn’t succeed anyway. Sure, you can PuG Naxx and succeed, you can do the same with VoA and OS… but you shouldn’t be able to with other content. Raids are supposed to be difficult enough that PuGs are not going to succeed. If PuGs can get geared up in a raid, it is too easy.

If you want to PuG raids on a regular basis, join a guild which raids. If you want to raid once a blue moon, you just have to deal with the fact that it’s going to be bloody difficult getting into a group. Regardless of gear, if I had the option between someone who raided frequently and the occasional pugger, I’d take the frequent raider any day of the week. I have yet to see a guild resort to taking a random pug to a raid. The risk of them not knowing the fights, not being able to stick around, and them being an asshat in general is just too great. If you do get into an Ulduar or equivalent raid by some chance, you are bloody dreaming if you think you will have a half decent chance at loot!

Sound elitist? Probably. Remember I don’t exactly come from a full on, hardcore raiding background. When I was in a casual guild, I was happy with having the gear I needed at the time. When I wanted to raid more content, I transferred to a semi-casual raiding guild. Sure, I have been ‘pugged’ into Ulduar… by my old guild, who hit me up when they need an extra. However, this isn’t a frequent thing I have seen happen on any server. The whole argument is just moot.

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]]> By: dozenz http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/badge-changes-can-bite-my-butt/comment-page-1/#comment-1245 dozenz Mon, 22 Jun 2009 03:22:14 +0000 http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/badge-changes-can-bite-my-butt/#comment-1245 While Uldaur 25 PUGs do happen, how far do they actually get? Flame leviathen for sure but then maybe 1-2 other bosses if you're lucky....and we all know that pretty much every PUG will end badly after FL. Thats many weeks to get even the cheapest item from badge gear (neck piece), which may not even be an upgrade. Yeah, the current system works great. While Uldaur 25 PUGs do happen, how far do they actually get?

Flame leviathen for sure but then maybe 1-2 other bosses if you’re lucky….and we all know that pretty much every PUG will end badly after FL. Thats many weeks to get even the cheapest item from badge gear (neck piece), which may not even be an upgrade.

Yeah, the current system works great.

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]]> By: Gnomeaggedon http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/badge-changes-can-bite-my-butt/comment-page-1/#comment-1244 Gnomeaggedon Mon, 22 Jun 2009 01:46:57 +0000 http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/badge-changes-can-bite-my-butt/#comment-1244 At 1st glance I was excited about this, but two things have occurred to me since. 1) My mates have already basically said "we might as well stop until the patch, otherwise we are wasting energy", and 2) As a casual this seems great... but if I am only generating 10 badges a week anyway, what will happen is pugs will be assuming everyone is geared out in the best an emblem can buy... and I will still be trucking around in my old EoH gear. <abbr><em>Gnomeaggedons last blog post..<a href="http://gnomeaggedon.net/2009/06/22/murloc-mondays/" rel="nofollow">Murloc Mondays</a></abbr></em> At 1st glance I was excited about this, but two things have occurred to me since.
1) My mates have already basically said “we might as well stop until the patch, otherwise we are wasting energy”, and
2) As a casual this seems great… but if I am only generating 10 badges a week anyway, what will happen is pugs will be assuming everyone is geared out in the best an emblem can buy… and I will still be trucking around in my old EoH gear.

Gnomeaggedons last blog post..Murloc Mondays

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]]> By: aneki http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/badge-changes-can-bite-my-butt/comment-page-1/#comment-1243 aneki Sun, 21 Jun 2009 23:25:03 +0000 http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/badge-changes-can-bite-my-butt/#comment-1243 I am in total agreement with you. This change will benefit me as I only run 10man Uldar but I think that we should not be able to get the top badge in Heroics or Naxx. The new tier system was great, why change it now? Naxx is easy to pug, I even see Uldar pugs on the server so if people want the badges they are available. I am in total agreement with you. This change will benefit me as I only run 10man Uldar but I think that we should not be able to get the top badge in Heroics or Naxx.
The new tier system was great, why change it now? Naxx is easy to pug, I even see Uldar pugs on the server so if people want the badges they are available.

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]]> By: dozenz http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/badge-changes-can-bite-my-butt/comment-page-1/#comment-1242 dozenz Sun, 21 Jun 2009 17:44:12 +0000 http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/badge-changes-can-bite-my-butt/#comment-1242 There is no reeason to not like this change. The argument that people who can only do 5 mand don't need raid gear is ridiculous. What if they want to join a PUG for current raid gear every so often? With the current system they'd be stuck trying to get into Naxx PUGs which nboody is running because Ulduar PUGs are the new hotness. And nobody is going to bring in a Heroic geared player into Ulduar (def not an Uldaur PUG). So people not in raiding guilds are stuck until newer 5 man content comes out, but they have to wait almsot a full year for new stuff which may or may not even get them gear which would allow to PUG current content. You also forget that the few items that can be purchased through badges (not even a full set) does not discredit the numreous other items obtainable from Current Content that are upgrades over badge gear. You won't be seeing people "purchasing" weapons, or other upgrades and definately not BiS. They are also only able to purchase gear a tier behind progressions raiders. Months after you've already purchased or won the same items. Anyone disliking this idea is doing so out of pure elitism, and hurt egos for only being 10% better geared rather than 25%. There is no reeason to not like this change.

The argument that people who can only do 5 mand don’t need raid gear is ridiculous. What if they want to join a PUG for current raid gear every so often?

With the current system they’d be stuck trying to get into Naxx PUGs which nboody is running because Ulduar PUGs are the new hotness. And nobody is going to bring in a Heroic geared player into Ulduar (def not an Uldaur PUG).

So people not in raiding guilds are stuck until newer 5 man content comes out, but they have to wait almsot a full year for new stuff which may or may not even get them gear which would allow to PUG current content.

You also forget that the few items that can be purchased through badges (not even a full set) does not discredit the numreous other items obtainable from Current Content that are upgrades over badge gear.

You won’t be seeing people “purchasing” weapons, or other upgrades and definately not BiS.

They are also only able to purchase gear a tier behind progressions raiders. Months after you’ve already purchased or won the same items.

Anyone disliking this idea is doing so out of pure elitism, and hurt egos for only being 10% better geared rather than 25%.

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]]> By: Erinys http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/badge-changes-can-bite-my-butt/comment-page-1/#comment-1241 Erinys Sat, 20 Jun 2009 07:42:22 +0000 http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/badge-changes-can-bite-my-butt/#comment-1241 "The thing that totally baffles me is the whole ‘casuals want access to BiS or close to as well’" Should just have Rhonin mail out BiS in his magically wrapped gift. It rather equals the same thing. <abbr><em>Erinyss last blog post..<a href="http://harpysnest.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/new-patch-new-tears/" rel="nofollow">New patch, new tears</a></abbr></em> “The thing that totally baffles me is the whole ‘casuals want access to BiS or close to as well’”

Should just have Rhonin mail out BiS in his magically wrapped gift. It rather equals the same thing.

Erinyss last blog post..New patch, new tears

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]]> By: Saresa http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/badge-changes-can-bite-my-butt/comment-page-1/#comment-1240 Saresa Sat, 20 Jun 2009 06:15:23 +0000 http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/badge-changes-can-bite-my-butt/#comment-1240 @kadomi and I acknowledge that Heroism gets gems... but that's about it. People will just cash in their easy to grab Conquest badges for Heroism when they need them, and won't ever need them otherwise. Why not just make everything buyable with Conquest badges?? It's essentially the same thing! @kadomi and I acknowledge that Heroism gets gems… but that’s about it. People will just cash in their easy to grab Conquest badges for Heroism when they need them, and won’t ever need them otherwise. Why not just make everything buyable with Conquest badges?? It’s essentially the same thing!

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]]> By: Saresa http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/badge-changes-can-bite-my-butt/comment-page-1/#comment-1239 Saresa Sat, 20 Jun 2009 06:13:49 +0000 http://www.destructivereach.com/2009/06/badge-changes-can-bite-my-butt/#comment-1239 The thing that totally baffles me is the whole 'casuals want access to BiS or close to as well'. My argument is people don't need the best gear in the game if they aren't intending to raid that content. If you are casual and want to 'hop into' Ulduar once in a while, well, that's great for you and your guild, but don't expect to get through the place as fast as a progression guild. It takes time to gear people up, and you might not have access to that time (which is fine), but it's hardly fair that you get get gear from doing fast easy things and blitz through harder content. There is NOTHING wrong with having the gear that is best suited to your content! The thing that totally baffles me is the whole ‘casuals want access to BiS or close to as well’. My argument is people don’t need the best gear in the game if they aren’t intending to raid that content. If you are casual and want to ‘hop into’ Ulduar once in a while, well, that’s great for you and your guild, but don’t expect to get through the place as fast as a progression guild. It takes time to gear people up, and you might not have access to that time (which is fine), but it’s hardly fair that you get get gear from doing fast easy things and blitz through harder content. There is NOTHING wrong with having the gear that is best suited to your content!

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