Once again I have been thinking about loot systems and how they work. As you probably know, my current guild works with Suicide Kings (also known as SKG from the name of the mod – Suicide Kings Geo). For the uninitiated, here is a brief run down of how the system works. SKG is based upon having master lists of everybody in the raid. We use a three list system: one for Tier, one for Raid (armour and weapons), and one for Miscellaneous Items (trinkets, relics, off hands, etc). The purpose of having three lists is to ensure that items of equal value are banded together, which makes it fairer (because all suicides are not equal after all).
At the beginning of the system, everyone used a random roll to establish their place. Raider rank members of the guild rolled 500-1000, and non raider rank members rolled 1-500. This ensured that those with Raider rank maintained their first preference for loot (at least to begin with). People who join the guild, as well as PuGs, join the list at the very bottom.
The system then works by having people ‘suicide’ for an item of loot they want. Suiciding simply means you sacrifice your position on the list and move to the bottom. When more than one person suicides, the person highest position wins the item. Everyone in the raid then moves up a position, while the people not in the raid do not. This is SKG’s way of rewarding people for attendance.
I think SKG sounds to be relatively fair in theory. Everyone has a chance at all loot (rather than DEing items because people have insufficient DKP, or other happenings people have heard of). Pugs also get a chance at the loot if no one needs it, which I believe is preferable to it being DE’ed or given to someone for an offset that they will never use. However, there are some major flaws, which I think really need to be addressed.
- There is no real reward for showing up when you have a character who is ‘fully geared’ (to farm content).
- Alts in our system run off the same list as the main – i.e. If I wanted to take Hermia to a run, I would use Saresa’s position on the list to suicide. Saresa has built up a fairly high place on the list by holding back from suicides, and can now take loot that would perhaps be better served going to a new recruit.
- In some ways, luck still plays a fairly major role. A great example is the Tier pieces. I have awfully bad luck when it comes to drops most of the time. I also make basically every required raid (if I had to guess, I would say I have 90% attendance). Through sheer dumb luck, everytime we downed a boss who dropped Tier gear I was away, or they didn’t drop a Hero piece. Of course, if it only dropped when I wasn’t there, all the other Warlocks, as well as the Mages and Hunters, advanced ahead of me on the list. It got to the point where people who attended far less than me had 3/5 of Tier 5, while I had none.
- Pugs can end up ahead of guildies. An instance of this happened today. We had a warlock applying to the guild who we decided not to let in. Now, for some reason or another, they have been present for a couple of raids throughout the application process (three I believe). Through this attendance, and the fact that I suicided for my T5 shoulders last week, they were above me on the list. When 3 Hero T5 Pant tokens dropped today, I felt fairly confident that I would get them (because most everyone else had them or better). Instead, one of the guild mages won them (perfectly fine), a guild alt-become-main got them (OK I suppose, although I still disagree with being able to swap an alt to a main simply because your main is now fully geared), and this app warlock got them. That really ticked me off, because the officers had decided half way through the raid that he would be rejected, because, frankly, he was not at all good.
I think that these issues are a major problem for our guild. The encouraging of alts to raid is a detriment to progression, as is letting upgrades go out of guild. People have no real incentive to show up, which means our core has deteriorated, resulting in the need to recruit and train. Of course, a loot system surely can not be the sole cause of guild trouble, but it helps.
My Ideal Loot System
- Rewards raiders for showing up to farm content
- Rewards raiders for raiding with their mains, despite the fact they may not need anything else from that place.
- Rewards people for showing up to ‘wipefests’ (new difficult content)
- Rewards people of Raider rank (or equivalent) before non-raiders
- Ensures that guild mains ALWAYS get upgrades before pugs or alts
- Discourages people from ‘main swapping’, as this often hinders progression.
- Rewards people for being punctual, reading strats, and being prepared.
- Discourages people from leaving upgrades in order to ‘save’ for more significant upgrades (DKP hoarding)
- Is ultimately beneficial to the guild’s progression.Tags: Guild, Loot Management, Raiding